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Author Topic: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark  (Read 37333 times)

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Offline 2bnag

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help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« on: May 19, 2010, 06:13:21 PM »
Twice during the last two years I have picked up 9mm brass from our local range that has a very unusual mark from the firing pin. There is no dimple, just a "smearing" of the brass from the primer. Can anyone tell me what kind of weapon left this mark?

Offline Jeff Foggy

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Re: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2010, 06:11:23 AM »
Could be a S&W sigma series pistol. The primer has flowback into the apperture and then gets sheared as the cartridge case is ext/ejt.

Offline Scott Doyle

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Re: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2010, 08:36:43 AM »
Looks a lot like the firing pin impression produced by an SWD Cobray M11-Nine.

14969-0

14971-1
« Last Edit: May 20, 2010, 08:39:04 AM by Scott Doyle »

Offline Chris Monturo

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Re: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2010, 09:48:34 AM »
Kel-tecs sometimes have the flowback/shearing combo.

It's tough to see from the pictures.  Are the breechface marks parallel?  if so, that would rule out the M-11 which is concentric.

Better pictures, and a few more examples may help.

Chris
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Offline Charles Clow

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Re: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« Reply #4 on: May 20, 2010, 11:39:06 AM »
I'm with Jeff . . . just had a Sigma CCs looked very similar to the one in the photos.

CMC

Offline 2bnag

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Re: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« Reply #5 on: May 20, 2010, 04:44:49 PM »
It is not an SWD. I have a registered SWD 9mm and the dimple in the primer looks like most other fired rounds. Here is another view with two other fired 9mm from "normal" pistols.

Offline Patrick McLaughlin

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Re: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« Reply #6 on: May 20, 2010, 05:53:47 PM »
Could it be that this is caused by excessive pressure?

Offline 2bnag

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Re: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« Reply #7 on: May 20, 2010, 07:53:15 PM »
I don't think it is excessive pressure as there are no other signs (like the primer "flattened"). Here is one more view again with two "normal" fired cases. In place ot the normal dimple, the primer actually has what looks like scraped brass. I cannot imagine how this round was fired.

Offline Aaron Brudenell

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Re: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« Reply #8 on: May 20, 2010, 07:53:50 PM »
I've frequently seen Remington ammunition (UMC in particular) leave what I would call a "full aperture shear" where there is little or no actual firing pin dimple remaining but one giant aperture shear mark in its place.  Seems to be ammo related because other ammo with the same guns don't seem to do this.

Gun type would have to be a droping barrel recoil so drag mark may be evident.
« Last Edit: June 02, 2010, 07:33:06 PM by Aaron Brudenell »
Aaron Brudenell
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Offline afss

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Re: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« Reply #9 on: May 21, 2010, 01:42:48 AM »
Hi,
If there are "Firing pin drag marks" inside, this is a CBP type for sure.
I often seen this hapend, probabley whan the barrel movement is faster than the firing procedure.
I'll advice you to take a look at the French MAB. Also it is a CBP type, the barrel rotates 1/4 of a turn insted of moving up-and-down. That leeves strange markings.
Lior  :-0
Talk softly and cary a big gun!

Offline Scott Doyle

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Re: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« Reply #10 on: May 21, 2010, 10:50:17 AM »
With that new picture I agree it's not an SWD.  The first picture had the appearance of a rectangular firing pin impression with circular firing pin aperture.  Optical illusion I guess.


Offline Tori Kujala

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Re: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« Reply #11 on: May 21, 2010, 10:54:21 AM »
I've seen this on the newer Sigmas after they changed the design to get away from the Glock patent infringement.
Tori Kujala
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Offline Justine Kreso

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Re: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« Reply #12 on: May 21, 2010, 10:59:32 AM »
I've probably worked a half dozen or so cases where I've seen this.  A few were test fires.  It seems to be some sort of gun/ammo combination that just doesn't work well together.  I'll have 2 test fires with type A ammo look normal, and the other 2 with type B ammo have that flowback/shearing that doesn't appear to be a FPI at all. 

The ones I've seen that look just like that have been plain ol' hemispherical firing pins and none have been the same make gun.  So pick a gun, any gun, and it might be the winner.
Justine Kreso
Onondaga County Center for Forensic Sciences
Syracuse, NY

Offline Axel Manthei

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Re: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« Reply #13 on: May 21, 2010, 05:08:38 PM »
My Tanfoglio IPSC pistol in 9 mm Luger has a small diameter firing pin in a large firing pin hole. Even with the most moderate ammo (S&B) it shears the primer off in the firing pin hole.
Probably a light firing pin (minimum inertia) is adding to this.
From the shear marks it is obviously a locking system with a dropping barrel (Browning and similar)

I would not concider it typical for a specific firearms type but for a specific combination of tolerances.

Greetings

Axel

Offline Bob Kennington

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Re: help identify this 9mm firing pin mark
« Reply #14 on: May 23, 2010, 10:26:06 AM »
"...There is no dimple, just a "smearing" of the brass from the primer. Can anyone tell me what kind of weapon left this mark...?"
:D I like "pick a gun..."....  ^-^

"Smearing" isn't too unusual. It's just that there aren't that many manufacturers that have "straight/vertical" breechface marks. (So don't give up in the identification of this weapon!)

(If coarse "vertical" [and parallel] breechface marks is what I'm seeing...my initial "horseback opinion" was associated with a Ruger).

Is there any particular shape you can ascribe to the extractor mark?

A clear photo (or sketch) of the ejector mark can be very helpful—if not definitive.

 

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