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Undergrad advice please

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Scott Smith:
Hello AFTE!  I am seeking some advice for my undergraduate studies.  I read the advice you folks gave to Zero MOA a few years ago.  I have found two programs I am considering to launch my forensics career.  The first is a standard chemistry degree from a local university.  The other is a forensic chemistry program about 3.5 hours away.  I have compared the two programs tirelessly and need your input.

The forensic chem program is a chemistry degree with just two different classes.  Granted, those two classes involve trace, toxicology, and DNA, but is it a) worth the commute for just these classes, and b) necessary since (like F/TM) an agency will train me as they see fit?

Also, I noticed a couple of you advised on getting a masters degree...I would think that going through a graduate program without any work experience wouldn't matter.  Is my logic flawed?

Last question:  in '08 Michael Ward mentioned to MOA the market was saturated.  Is this still the case?  It won't deter me from my goals, but I would like a realistic expectation for myself.

Thank you to all!  See you in New York!

-Scott Smith

Justine Kreso:
How much info are you really getting into with 2 courses?  It seems like you'd have a few classes each semester on each science within a lab and that's it.  Not enough time for you to really pick up intensive enough information in which it would be some benefit to a lab.  Save your commute and get a good internship during the summers and I'm sure you'll learn a lot more than you would in those classes.  

Down the road, you could always pick up those 2 other classes at the other college as well without bothering with their actual degree program.  

IF you can get a job right out of college, I see no point in getting a MS.  My senior year of college I said I'd go get a MS in forensics if I couldn't get a job right away.  I did....if I had a MS I would have started at my job about $1200 higher than I did, but then it all evens out because we top out at the same pay....so the most I would have ever been ahead in money was being a step ahead in salary and retirement, but I would have had $60,000 in student loans.  

That's just my opinion.  Others might have a different one since we all have different career experiences and in the end you really can only plan so much for this thing because you have no idea what lab hiring situations are going to be like in 4 years.


And glad we have our first student attendee for AFTE 2012!  :clap:

Tori Kujala:
Great points, Justine.

Something else to consider:  The Chemistry degree leaves you open for other employment opportunities in case you don't find a forensics job right away.  The Forensic Chemistry degree might limit your opportunities if an employer is looking for a QA/QC/R&D Chemist and he/she knows little about the FC degree program.

It might pay better to get the Masters later, once you are established.  I would have started at the same pay (an ex-associate who had her Masters did start here a month after I did at the same starting salary).  After promoting to Senior Forensic Scientist, I am eligible for an 8% raise if I went back to school to get my Masters.  At my age, I don't see myself sitting in night school.

Tk

Calvin Story:
The Texas Dept. of Public Safety system has a headquarters lab and 5 field labs (2 more coming on line soon) with Firearms Examiners. We train new Firearms Examiners. We have 6 in training right now. We have approx. 100 applicants for each opening we post. Most have degrees. We have to give extra points to Master degree applicants to help weed down to the 15 or so we will interview for each opening. Each opening is filled based on the applicants oral interview.
So, if we have 15 applicants with Master degrees, they will usually get the interviews. USUALLY, not all interviewees have Masters degrees. However, the starting salary is the same no matter what degrees you have.
Muddied the water, didn't I! Sorry but that is how our system works!

Calvin Story:
Replying to my own post! Does that prove that I am getting old?

I just learned that we get 100 plus applicants for HEADQUARTERS openings. We only get 10 - 20 applicants for the field lab openings. Therefore, applicants that do not have Masters degrees are much more likely to get interviews for field lab positions. Our posted openings are specific to the locations where there are vacancies.
I also learned that points are awarded for internships. So do an internship at a Police agency while working on your BS degree and then apply (at least in the Texas DPS system). You don't have the added expense and time that you would have obtaining a Masters degree.

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