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Author Topic: Headstamp Sumittal Questions  (Read 34598 times)

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Offline JAndrews

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Headstamp Sumittal Questions
« on: May 30, 2009, 08:23:42 PM »
Greeting all...  I have been lurking in the shadows as a guest and decided to join the forum a couple of days ago.  Just now getting my courage up to post.  I have several headstamps that are not in your current database.  I collect old military brass and rifle brass as well as pickup a lot of brass from my local gun range.  My questions are as follows...

1) Military / Rifle brass - Do you need specifications on length, diameter if the round is still intact? or even a picture of the round along with the headstamp?

2) My current camera is not very good at capturing a good image.  Any ideas on how to get quality photos suitable for posting?

3) Is there a specific size you need the pictures for posting? (if I get a decent photo)

4) If unable to get proper photos is there an address I can ship the spent casings to for inclusion?  I don't mind paying the postage and would not need the casing back.

5)  On some of the posted headstamps I see slight differences in what I have.  Since the posted ones are identified, would you still like the ones I have.  An example I have a rifle round with a headstamped  of LC 43.  The database has several LC numbers.

Well, these are my current questions, however I'm sure a few more will pop into my head once I complete this post.  Anyway, Thanks for the service you are providing, and I hope to include some of the headstamps I have found.

v/r
Jim

Offline Bob Shem

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Re: Headstamp Sumittal Questions
« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2009, 11:58:13 PM »
David Wright will likely get back to you on this.  Thanks.
Robert J. Shem, 4900 Buckingham Way., Anchorage, AK  99503, ph 907 952-2254, bobshem@alaskan.com

Offline Richard Hitchcox

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Re: Headstamp Submittal Questions
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2009, 11:57:04 AM »
Jim,

Thank you for your interest in the AFTE Headstamp Guide.  I offer a special thanks for your willingness to contribute headstamps and information for inclusion in the guide.  The headstamp guide was recently transferred from David Wright to myself so I will attempt to answer your questions to the best of my ability.

1) Military / Rifle brass - Do you need specifications on length, diameter if the round is still intact? or even a picture of the round along with the headstamp?

As much information as possible would be appreciated; however, a headstamp will not be rejected for lack of this information.  I have several sources and databases that I use to look up and/or confirm information.  

I don't see a need for inclusion of a photo of the intact cartridge, because we do not have that for headstamps currently in the headstamp guide.

2) My current camera is not very good at capturing a good image.  Any ideas on how to get quality photos suitable for posting?

I and others have taken close up photos with digital cameras, and I remember someone previously stating that they copied the headstamps they submitted with an office copier.  

I am not sure what type of camera you are using; therefore, I'm also not quite sure how to answer this question.

3) Is there a specific size you need the pictures for posting? (if I get a decent photo)

Our global moderator recently weighed in on the file size of photos posted here on the AFTE web site.  He has told us that jpeg images should be kept to under 200 KB.  I resize photos as neccessary before posting them in the headstamp guide.  

4) If unable to get proper photos is there an address I can ship the spent casings to for inclusion?  I don't mind paying the postage and would not need the casing back.

Any cartridge cases that you would like to submit for inclusion in the headstamp guide can be sent to my work address as listed below.

Texas DPS Crime Laboratory
Attn: Richard Hitchcox
1414 North Bicentennial Boulevard
McAllen, TX 78501

5)  On some of the posted headstamps I see slight differences in what I have.  Since the posted ones are identified, would you still like the ones I have.  An example I have a rifle round with a headstamped  of LC 43.  The database has several LC numbers.

Please submit any headstamps that vary from those listed in the AFTE Headstamp Guide.  If there are differences from existing headstamps the new headstamps will be added.

I hope that I have sufficiently answered your questions, and I appreciate your willingness to assist by offering to submit items for inclusion in the AFTE Headstamp Guide.

Thank you,

Richard
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 12:13:01 PM by Richard Hitchcox »
1911 is faster than 911 ~ anonymous

Offline JAndrews

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Re: Headstamp Sumittal Questions
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2009, 08:49:02 PM »
Richard,

Thanks for the information, and I will try the copier/scanner option.  If I'm unsuccessful, I'll send them to you in the mail.  I had another idea too.  With the ever increasing size of the headstamp collection, have you ever thought of sorting the pictures by caliber and or manufacturer?  I don't know what tools you are using to keep track of the headstamps, but if it a database a few new queries wold work.

I will also look at the various primer stamps that I have and any difference i send your way.

Thanks for the reply and I hope you had a great AFTE Seminar.

v/r
Jim

Offline Bob Shem

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Re: Headstamp Sumittal Questions
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2009, 09:13:15 PM »
Quote
have you ever thought of sorting the pictures by caliber and or manufacturer?

The idea behind the headstamp guide is a free, user-friendly method of determining the manufacturer (or marketer) of a headstamp that is not obvious.

For example, the manufacturer/marketer of a cartridge displaying the headstamp WINCHESTER 38 SPL is pretty intuitively obvious.  A cartridge with an odd symbol or cryptic arrangement of letters and number is not so obvious.

The AFTE headstamp guide is not supposed to be a complete encyclopedia of every headstamp ever manufactured, but rather a convenient, accurate way for the bench firearm examiner to identify an otherwise unidentifiable manufacturer/marketer.

I hope that this helps clarify the rationale behind the headstamp guide.

Thanks for your interest and any efforts on your part to make the database more complete.
« Last Edit: June 06, 2009, 09:18:09 PM by Bob Shem »
Robert J. Shem, 4900 Buckingham Way., Anchorage, AK  99503, ph 907 952-2254, bobshem@alaskan.com

Offline JAndrews

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Re: Headstamp Sumittal Questions
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2009, 11:13:53 PM »
Bob,

My initial thought was in reference to the answer i received from Richard on question 5 on my original post.  It was merely an observation. 

Richard stated... "Please submit any headstamps that vary from those listed in the AFTE Headstamp Guide.  If there are differences from existing headstamps the new headstamps will be added."

With that in mind, that is why I posed the thought.  As I see this guide growing exponentially.

I agree the headstamps with the manufacture WIN 38 SPL identify the manufacture and I see your point, but the caliber sort may also be beneficial. Or at least a faster way to view, or look up a headstamp.

v/r
Jim

Offline Richard Hitchcox

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Re: Headstamp Submittal Questions
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2009, 11:47:22 PM »
There is a search feature in the headstamp gallery.  One can search by caliber, manufacturer/marketer, or any term one may choose.  However, the caliber was not provided with many entries, and the search feature will not work for caliber in those cases.  Also keep in mind that this is a work in progress, and it is being updated on a continuing basis.

I will include as many variations of a headstamp as are submitted.
However, like Bob stated this resource is provided as a free, user-friendly method of determining the marketer of cartridge cases that a forensic firearm examiner may encounter in casework.

Any and all submissions for inclusion in the headstamp gallery are appreciated.

Richard
1911 is faster than 911 ~ anonymous

Offline Brandon Bertolli

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Re: Headstamp Sumittal Questions
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2009, 06:59:55 AM »
Quote
My current camera is not very good at capturing a good image.  Any ideas on how to get quality photos suitable for posting?


Ordinary flat bed scanner for the win! Just make sure it is dust free and you place the cartridge cases carefully to avoid scratching the glass. This method might not be suitable if the case has been discharged and the firing pin impression has created significant protrusion of metal so that the case can't sit flush with the glass.

Here is one I prepared earlier:

http://www.afte.org/ExamResources/gallery2/v/Headstamp-Gallery/album01/Rimfire_Swirl.jpg.html

It is one sure way of getting consistent imaging for those of us who don't have access to high end lab equipment.
It is very quick, also: you can place 20 at a time and scan them all with identical settings.
Brandon Bertolli, Radiographer, bbertolli(at)yahoo.com

Offline JAndrews

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Re: Headstamp Sumittal Questions
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2009, 08:03:20 PM »
Thanks Brandon.  I will definitely give this a try as my little Cannon point and shoot doesn't seam to work very well.  I hope to have several pictures soon.  As I sort through my bags of pistol brass and old rifle brass I set the unique ones aside for photo ops...

v/r
Jim

Offline JAndrews

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Re: Headstamp Submittal Questions
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2009, 08:12:44 PM »
... However, the caliber was not provided with many entries, and the search feature will not work for caliber in those cases.  ...

Richard

Ahh... The issue of caliber not being provided by the submitter never crossed my mind....  Sorry for the confusion on my part.  I was just thinking out loud again.  Gets me in trouble from time to time.

I currently have set aside about 20+ headstamps to try to digitize for you.  If I'm successful, by Brandon's method, Is there a specific place you would like them posted.  Or should I PM them to you?

v/r
Jim

Offline Richard Hitchcox

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Re: Headstamp Submittal Questions
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2009, 08:22:41 PM »
Jim, Many of the submitted headstamps have been posted in the thread listed below.  Feel free to add to that thread.

www.afte.org/forum/smf1/index.php?topic=1367.0

Brandon, Thanks for pointing out that it was a flat bed scanner rather than a copier that was used to capture the headstamp images.

Richard
1911 is faster than 911 ~ anonymous

Offline JAndrews

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Re: Headstamp Sumittal Questions
« Reply #11 on: June 08, 2009, 05:14:15 PM »
Richard,

I posted a R - P 30 30 Winchester headstamp in the area you requested.  This is a sample to see if the posting worked as well as verify the size and color.  Currently I have about 25 headstamps set aside to scan and submit. 

Is there a limit to the number you can post on a single message?  Or do you want a separate photo with each posting?

v/r
Jim

Offline Richard Hitchcox

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Re: Headstamp Submittal Questions
« Reply #12 on: June 08, 2009, 08:18:21 PM »
Jim,

Thank you very much for your efforts.

When I cropped out the black edges the headstamp itself is rather small and loses a lot of detail (becomes fuzzy) when enlarged to a size suitable for being inserted into the gallery. 

I think it is an issue of enlarging the image when scanning, because that's what it looks like when I look at the images that Brandon has scanned previously.  However, I will defer to Brandon for an explanation, because I have never scanned headstamps in this manner.

If anyone can provide insight into how to obtain the best images in this manner please help me out here.  I am somewhat technologically challenged and am not afraid to admit that I'm in over my head on how to best obtain images with a flatbed scanner.

Richard
1911 is faster than 911 ~ anonymous

Offline JAndrews

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Re: Headstamp Sumittal Questions
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2009, 08:52:09 PM »
Richard,

Thanks, I'm glad I didn't post the rest of them.  I am going to see if I can borrow another camera and see what I can get a better image. If not I'll be sending you the brass, but will not be able to sent the "live" items.

v/r
Jim

Offline Brandon Bertolli

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Re: Headstamp Sumittal Questions
« Reply #14 on: June 09, 2009, 02:58:47 AM »
Hi Jim

1) You need to increase the scanning DPI.
2) Make sure the scanner is set to 24-bit colour.
3) Make sure you have photo selected, not high speed text/document or equivalent.

Any problems, I am happy to assist via the email in my signature.
Brandon Bertolli, Radiographer, bbertolli(at)yahoo.com

 

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